Kaguya:
The role for senior women is to break some of the image that people expect that I being always understanding the issues 100%.
Sam:
Right, right.
Kaguya:
But actually what I had was healthy body, healthy soul and good friendship and partnership and then also a little bit guts.
Sam:
Welcome back to the Women on the Move podcast from JP Morgan Chase. I'm Sam Saperstein. Women on the Move is a global initiative at the bank. It's designed to help women grow their businesses, improve their financial health, and build their careers. As the head of Women on the Move, I'm thrilled to welcome you back to this podcast series. Through these episodes, we've wanted to highlight women at the firm who work around the world. Here at JP Morgan Chase, we're fortunate to have many incredible strong female leaders around the world. As you heard with Sarah Heferin, Joanna Martin and Camilla Pena. Today you'll get to hear from another one of those leaders, Kaguya Komatsu. She's a managing director based in Tokyo and serves as head of Japan's Institutional Business for JP Morgan Asset Management. Kaguya has offered us a unique perspective into career progression and work life balance in a different culture. While we discuss cultural differences between the US and Japan, I was struck by the commonalities between Kaguya's experiences and many of the others that we've heard on this podcast, so let's dive right in.
Sam:
Kaguya, thank you so much for joining us.
Kaguya:
Thank you.
Sam:
So let's start out by having you tell us about your career. What do you do today?
Kaguya:
So I work for JP Morgan Asset Management, which actually takes the money from individuals consumers, and then also financial institutions and pension funds and our company manage the money for them with very risk adjusted returns. My role is to be in charge of the institutional clients business, so I actually cover financial institutions, I have insurance companies and pension funds. These institutions actually takes money from us really, so I feel that the work I do is actually to manage and provide service to the national wealth on behalf of JP Morgan. I'm very fascinated by this work that what I do is to really take care of the national wealth for the next generations and as a working mother. Although I spend a lot of time in workplace and kind of like sometimes sacrifice family time, I feel that I'm doing this not only for the company I'm working with, but for the society that I'm living with.
Sam:
That sounds very meaningful to you.
Kaguya:
Yes, it is. I think every time I talk to my clients, I really feel that from the clients words and tones and expectations and it's sometimes very a lot of pressure, but I think it's worth it.
Sam:
How many people are on your team?
Kaguya:
Actually, including me, it's small team; eight, but there are hundreds of people working for us to support our clients.
Sam:
So, tell us how you got to this role. What were some of the other roles you had here at the firm?
Kaguya:
Right.
Sam:
How did you get here?
Kaguya:
Okay, so I been working for this farm for eight years. For the first five years, I was actually doing the product manager for fixed income, and when there was a change in CEO in Japan office, he appointed me to be the head of financial institution sales. Then last year he asked me to take over the entire institutional clients.
Sam:
That's a wonderful. Congratulations.
Kaguya:
Thank you.
Sam:
When you were doing product, did you envision yourself doing a role like this? Was this always your goal?
Kaguya:
Yes, but I was more focused on how to solve for the clients, rather than envisioning myself it a specific role, so the fact was I was enjoying the role that I was taking and I never really hope to be in the current role, but something just... it was very natural that this role came to me.
Sam:
What do you like about that? Why is that so interesting to you?
Kaguya:
It's fascinating to be in a big team. It doesn't have to be the team members are working for you all the time or reporting to you, but you do actually create this virtual team to really solve for the best for your clients. It's very challenging that the clients always provide you a very tough questions and tough projects, but I'm very confident that whenever I'm asked, there's a bunch of people in different places that I can actually seek for advice and support.
Sam:
So you're also a mother?
Kaguya:
Yes.
Sam:
In Japan, tell us about what that's like being a working mother, how common that is and what it's been like for you.
Kaguya:
Yes, so working mother is not a rare case in Japan. However, it's a rare case to be a working mother in a big institution. In the old time, it was more like working mothers are typically seen in small shops or like in a small owned companies and working for financial institutions, like banks or securities firms, was quite rare.
Sam:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kaguya:
It's becoming more open, but it's still quite hard work to be a working mother in Japan.
Sam:
Six years ago in Japan, there was a women's initiative launched, Womenomics, that was really trying to promote more women in the workplace. Have you felt that that's made a difference? You know, what do you see personally in terms of any culture change?
Kaguya:
Actually, our sometimes top down initiative works a lot. I think the workplace that I used to work, the Japanese government, has changed a lot and now I can see many working mothers. I don't think they struggle a lot when they get pregnant, so I think, which is great. Traditionally, how people accomplish what they want was truly divided by gender, I'd say. In general, women were able to accomplish themselves at home or in family. Various men were more in college to accomplish themselves in big institutions and offices, and I think it has been tradition for many, many years. Definitely that is a part of culture.
Sam:
As you're raising your children and making this busy career work, especially with travel, how do you do it? What resources and help do you rely on?
Kaguya:
What makes us Japanese working mothers difficult is the working hours, in general.
Sam:
Right.
Kaguya:
I actually have to retain babysitters or nannies until 10:00 PM every day from Monday to Friday, and then I put my children to nursery school or my first child is now in a primary school and that finishes at 2:00 or 1:00, so which means that I technically hire nannies from 2:00 PM until 10:00 PM and it's costly.
Sam:
What is the conversation like at home with you and your husband as you're planning out your week? If you have a busy week and you know you're going overseas, how are you planning that together?
Kaguya:
Yes, so the morning time is quite important and sometimes I just don't see them during the evening, so I have a lot of long chats with my husband and then also are our nanny, the nannies. Then also I have a lot of contacts with the other working mothers, mothers in neighborhood. They sometimes report to me that oh, your son was walking with iPad playing the game and I was like, "Oh my God. Thank you for telling them."
Sam:
[crosstalk 00:08:47].
Kaguya:
Yes.
Sam:
Smart.
Kaguya:
Definitely friendship and then the other contacts. Not only with your family, but with your neighborhood is very important. You can't be alone to do orders. You just have to be in very a mixed team.
Sam:
Right.
Kaguya:
Then just open minded.
Sam:
So tell me about your mentors or supporters, the people who helped you get to this place and especially get to your current job. What do those relationships mean to you?
Kaguya:
I think I've met two very good boss in my career. One is in FSA that I used to work for. The other is my current boss. My first boss, in FSA, he was very supportive for me. He was very notorious in a way that he shows other people, he looked to be like bullying people, but he was very fair on the outcome and once he on that I could be useful person for him, he really took me everywhere and which actually broadened my network and he was very supportive for my pregnancy and he even wrote about me in one of the articles in your newspaper.
Sam:
That's very nice.
Kaguya:
Yeah, so he was very support and we still in contact.
Sam:
Touch today.
Kaguya:
Yeah,.
Sam:
Oh, that's great.
Kaguya:
There's a huge gap in ages of when I was leaving the government, he sent me message that from now we will be friends. We will help each other and then we will work together as partners and he's been great.
Sam:
That's a really nice relationship.
Kaguya:
Yes. My current boss was very good to me. When he was trying to promote me, he really sat down and he spent time with me to point out my personal shortcomings.
Sam:
The development areas.
Kaguya:
Exactly.
Sam:
Is what we like to say.
Kaguya:
Yeah. Development areas. It was very hard to accept it sometimes, but he was very patient and he was telling me all the things that the other people never told me.
Sam:
Ah, so things for the first time that you've hadn't heard. Some feedback you hadn't heard.
Kaguya:
Yeah. Then sometimes people tell you, but once you see that you're kind of like a defensive.
Sam:
Right.
Kaguya:
A lot of people, they actually disappear. Right?
Sam:
Right.
Kaguya:
He was very focused on me to grow me and he was very patient.
Sam:
So it sounds like you thought he had your best interests at heart, so even though he was giving you tough feedback.
Kaguya:
Exactly.
Sam:
You could accept it more easily than maybe others in the past and actually address that feedback.
Kaguya:
Right.
Sam:
That fair to say?
Kaguya:
Yeah. Then maybe also I change myself. Sometimes when you're talking to your boss, even when you're uncomfortable or when you find some points that you don't really agree, sometimes you don't say it and it's harder to accept that feeling when it comes to the issue that you feel maybe is this because I'm a woman, but does he say that because I'm young? Do you say it because I'm a woman? I think it's very difficult to say that...
Sam:
Very.
Kaguya:
...to someone who is working in this kind of institution that you want to pay respect.
Sam:
Right.
Kaguya:
You want to believe that the people are not giving you tough gender biased comments, but I think many women do encounter it, right? Then they feel something, but I kind of change myself. That if you trust the person that you're talking to, you don't want to carry that feeling.
Sam:
Right.
Kaguya:
Sometimes you may be... I may be biased and then I maybe missed that message, so I just open my mind to be honest with him.
Sam:
Actually ask him those things. You ask him, "Were you getting that feedback because we're women and young."
Kaguya:
Exactly.
Sam:
He said?
Kaguya:
He was upset first, and I thought I was kidding him, but after months he came back to me that with word of unconscious bias he may had. Then which was very nice moment for me and for him that we had. We kind of shared that very sensitive discussion item between us that ah, is this unconscious bias or is this not or am I being too negative to feel that you are saying this because I'm young or I'm women?
Sam:
Right.
Kaguya:
Then they started to understand that, oh, she didn't mean it. He kind of realized that he says in that way that he was doing it, even tough women like Kaguya may feel in this way, so what if the other women?
Sam:
Right.
Kaguya:
Yeah.
Sam:
It's so interesting. I mean, that's so incredible that you had this breakthrough, almost. This really deep connection that maybe got deeper as a result of that, that you were willing to say that and he was willing to come to the table and acknowledge things.
Kaguya:
Exactly.
Sam:
Which is great. Did you expect him to do that? Were you worried you were going to take a risk by saying those things?
Kaguya:
I felt I was at risk, but at the same time that I really believed in this firm and in the institution. I think my confidence on this institutions was made not only by this specific boss, but the other partners and senior members of the firm.
Sam:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kaguya:
So I really didn't want to leave that feeling in my heart and because I felt it's kind of like a more betrayal, not loyal to the firm.
Sam:
Right.
Kaguya:
I was very happy to see my boss was very facing the discussion point that I was raising and he was trying to digest it as a manager and he was trying to learn it to become even better manager.
Sam:
Right.
Kaguya:
I actually, by doing the process, I really learned the manager's attitudes from him as well, that it must be very difficult for someone who has totally different background and different cultural background, so I felt more connected with the manager and then I hope that I can engage with other people in a way that how he did to me.
Sam:
Oh that's great. When you talk to other women at the firm about anything, about their careers, about being moms or just about progressing, what are the kinds of things you talk about?
Kaguya:
We have a lot of female workers, women, and they often come to my office to share their worries and issues, and I don't want to generalize the female issues, but I think by culture some of the women in the office are trained to be quiet. Trained to be modest. Trained to be receptive, thinking maybe the society is expecting them or maybe thinking that the cultural system or societal system is actually making them feel that maybe this is better way to do. Even when women are educated and trained, when we have some programs, it's quite often the case that younger male staff raise their hands, not understanding the issue. They say, "Oh, we will do it. We will sort it out." Sometimes it's a big difference in a workplace and I tell women sometimes that I'm very supportive for them, but I say sometimes you just need to get the work for yourself to learn from it. Quite often, I guess, many women, they don't want to raise their hands because they feel that they make mistake or they feel that they're not 100% sure...
Sam:
Right.
Kaguya:
...to take that job.
Sam:
You coach them through thinking about it differently, taking jobs even though might not be 100% ready.
Kaguya:
Exactly, because people, like in my team, what sales people are expecting is we do actually handle a lot of complicated stuff that you know we have to deal with some issue that we don't even know so much. How we actually solve it is reach out to the talent or the people who actually know it, so that's something that you can do it if you can communicate with people.
Sam:
Right.
Kaguya:
Just be ready to take what you are being asked and then you can enjoy the journey and challenge and people are around you trying to help.
Sam:
Yeah, so kind of having that confidence to know you will solve it and solve it together with the colleagues that you're talking about.
Kaguya:
Yes.
Sam:
I think many people feel and women particularly, they have to do that all themselves versus ask for help or rely on the team or to your point acknowledge they might not know everything, which can be hard. Do you find that once people start to do that they become more comfortable and then continue doing it?
Kaguya:
Yeah, so sometimes I think the role for senior women is to break some of the image that people expect that I being always understanding the issues 100%.
Sam:
Right.
Kaguya:
Right, but actually what I had was healthy body, healthy soul and good friendship and partnership and then also a little bit guts.
Sam:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Right. All those things comes together.
Kaguya:
Exactly, so I think I'm just trying to show that I'm not perfect. I'm not like 100% knowledgeable to deal with this, but be just willingness to trying to help or trying to take some part.
Sam:
When other women come to you and seek advice on how to develop other close relationships with their bosses, what do you tell them? How can you encourage them to do something similar?
Kaguya:
I think when you receive heartbreaking message from your boss, it's your obligation to face it and how you face it is not digest it or drink it over. You just need to really feel that it's really your obligation to ask why he said it to you and at least the person will recognize that the word or the message was misleading or heartbreaking and I think that's very important, but I think to gain the heartbreaking message is already a good job, I would say, because you're talking to the boss.
Sam:
Right.
Kaguya:
And then trying to really get the deeper conversation.
Sam:
Yeah.
Kaguya:
Yeah.
Sam:
Thank you so much for joining.
Kaguya:
Thank you.
Sam:
I really appreciate your perspectives.
Kaguya:
Thank you.
Sam:
I hope to see you again.
Kaguya:
Thank you.
Sam:
Thanks to Kaguya Komatsu for sharing her experiences with us. Her stories provided me with a new perspective and I hope you gained some interesting insights as well. As always, thank you for joining us today. Women on the Move exists because all of us at JP Morgan Chase want to see women be successful in business and life. Our goal is to introduce you to people with great ideas, inspiring stories, and a passion to make a difference. We hope you enjoyed this episode and continue to explore the rest of the series. For JP Morgan Chase's Women on the Move, I'm Sam Saperstein.
